Wednesday, November 01, 2006

 

Atheism--Man The Machine

Recently, I was in a bookstore and there were several magazines about, as Wired Magazine titled it, The New Atheism. No Heaven. No Hell. Just Science. "The Crusade Against Religion." Harper’s had a story, "In Defense of Religion"--Marilynne Robinson on Richard Dawkin’s Hysterical Scientism. Seed--Science is Culture – "God vs. Science." A lot of stuff out there!

E.O. Wilson is someone from whom I’ve learned quiet a bit. He’s a Harvard zoologist who wrote Consilience--the idea that everything is somehow connected--even the social sciences. He’s a modern day Newton in my book, but one who doesn’t believe in God. Whereas, Newton used science and mathematics to try to prove God--Wilson would not. Richard Dawkins recently wrote The God Delusion, going to read that one pretty soon. Wired wrote an article in the November 2006 issue, The Church of the Non-Believers--A band of intellectual brothers is mounting a crusade against God. Are they winning converts, or merely preaching to the choir? Daniel Dennett at Tufts is also one of the new/old evangelists. Sam Harris recently wrote The End of Faith, and now Letters to a Christian Nation.

Why is someone who is especially a scientist passionate about debunking "God." The scientists and researches tell us now that we have a "God" gene. Researchers tell us prayer makes people get well quicker. Aren’t all genes necessary for survival? Why do they want to take away that gene? These are men who readily admit you can’t "scientifically" prove God, but also admit you can’t "scientifically" disprove God. If science cannot prove their point--especially as scientists--why are they so passionate about this? Why not continue new ways of research to prove their point?

They are smart men. They ask the same questions we all ask. If there is a God, why is pain and suffering allowed? How can injustice abound? Why does the Bible not take a stand against slavery? Why is there not more physical proof? These are all legitimate questions. He is familiar with some of the arguments for God: creation, form and order, diversity, uniformity, the uniqueness of man, the moral nature of man, man’s belief historically in "God" of some kind. He really doesn’t address those.

In Sam Harris’s new book Letters to a Christian Nation – he takes on not just the fundamentalist, but moderates and liberals, as well, making them out as the absolute worst because they should know better. He even takes on Mother Teresa! Here’s the deal--if Sam’s right, then none of us need to care for the poor or feel any sense of responsibility. It’s pure Darwinism--survival of the fittest. BUT, if he’s wrong, then all of us should be caring for the poor!

Poor Sam Harris--of whom I think I’d like if I knew him--he’s reduced to philosophy and emotion and opinion polls! He asks how can most people believe in God and that even though they do the vast majority are wrong. He then uses as a reason we shouldn’t believe in God to be because so many scientists don’t believe in God. Do you wanna use stats or not? Make up your mind. Because, people are smart in one field, they think they’re smart in every field. Because, science teaches us so much and has impacted our world so much—and, no doubt, you have to be smart to do it and understand it. Some scientists feel like that qualifies them for philosophy. When it’s all said and done every single one of us are reduced to faith--Billy Graham and Richard Dawkins.

Therefore, since we all live on this pale blue dot together and must get along to survive and given that religion isn’t going away any time soon, the most important philosophical question perhaps we should ask is "what is the benefit of believing in God and how can that pull us together?" If we are reduced to machines and there is no soul, then there is no hope. If we are elevated to family, and we are all the same blood, that’s a different kind of humanity. No doubt about it, we have massive "religious" challenges. You think you’ve seen war and violence with religion, imagine what you would see without it? At least some can challenge people doing things in the name of God based on the truth of their Holy books. What morality do you appeal to a man if there is no God?

Comments:
Sam Harris is right,if only one of the worlds many religion is right, then most people have faith in the wrong one. What kind of "hope" does that give? None, unless you happen to believe in the right one, which nobody can know for certain in this life. And there is absolutely no evidence of a life after this one! Therefore, hope in an eternal reward is no more than wishful thinking on anyone's part.
As far as wars go, since most are fought in the name of religion, there would likely be less major conflicts without religion.
 
You probably don't watch "South Park" but their most recent animated episode attempts to make the same points that you've just made here. God and religion has been a strong force in society for thousands of years and still we have war, hunger, injustice. These human problems can't be solved by religion, or by lack of religion. In fact, due to human nature, they probably can't easily be solved.
 
This is all fine, but lets be intellectually honest in all this -Sam Harris can't address it as a scientist - but only as a person using reason and philsophy. Whatever our conclusions - are based upon our view and it is embraced by faith - even faith in no faith! So - having said that - another interesting point - why does human nature point down to self-centeredness instead of up to selflessness?
 
It does not require faith to not have faith, it requires reason. Or are you suggesting that it requires faith on your part to disbelieve in invisible pink unicorns? Of course not, common sense and lack of evidence tells you there is no reason to believe. Having faith in their existance would be ridiculous, no matter how popular it may be.
Human nature is naturally selfish due to the strong desire to survive. Most people, Christians included, make sure their own needs are met before they reach out to anyone else selflessly.
 
How do you explain scientist discovery of the "God" gene? How do explain all cultures - no matter how disconnected beleive in God? How do you explain in crisis - we all turn to prayer? What is it inside of us that makes us both pull ourself upward and look upward? How can there be spirituality - without Spirit? How is it scientist believe in God - not just "religious" people? These are serious questions. You bet - at times I question God and would even go so far as to say "doubt" - but if God is out of the equation - what makes sense and how can any of this fit?
 
Bob Roberts,

These are interesting questions, if you read Dawkins book "The God delusion" he answers just this type of question. I'm half way through it just now and he puts forward a lot of well argued points
Iain
 
Did scientists actually "discover" a "god gene" or are they simply speculating that such a thing may exist due to the fact that most of humanity appear to have a need for a surpreme supernatural being in order to attempt to make sense of the unexplainable? Doesn't it seem suspiciously coincidental that all of these deities reflect the particular cultural values of each society throughout history?
If there really is a "God gene", why are there so many conflicting views on who exactly this "God" is? Why wouldn't "he" have placed the same gene in everyone if he wanted all to know him personally?
There is no evidence that prayer helps anymore than crossing one's fingers or wishing on a star. The desire to believe there is some all-powerful parent figure who deeply loves and cares about us and is able and willing to help if we but ask may provide a sense of comfort, but there is nothing to support its effectiveness as being greater than any other positive thought process or superstitious act.
Spirituality is a product of the mind, just like every other human emotion. The heart does not produce feelings of love, joy, sadness, kindness, etc., they all come from the brain. Spirituality is nothing more than the human brain being conditioned to accept supernatural explanations to things.
 
What do you perceive as the value of not believing in God? Why does this even matter to you? Is it you think society would be better off? How would you fill the "hope" void? How would you relate to and engage people of faith? You will have to relate to them, there are a few billion of them. Viewing them as "unenlightenned" or "second class won't work in the world today. Faith is more than a reason issue - it is also a passion issue. Have you considered the voids that will be left if faith is gone?
 
Bob,
Most people of faith do not relate to people of different faiths, so what's the difference?
Many people have faith that they will win the lottery and invest a lot of their money into it every week, but does their passion make it true? Someone will eventually win after all, why not them? So would it be wrong to tell them how slim their chances are of having the right numbers, thereby taking away their false sense of hope? Or would it be doing them a service to help them understand the fact that they most likely won't win? With religion, most people believe all others hold the losing tickets while they hold the winning, but there is no evidence that there even is a jackpot. It's all based on faith, aka, wishful thinking. The "void" experienced after acknowledging the false hope of religious faith can be filled with personal growth and humanistic endeavors.
 
Anonymous - I like you and how you think - though I obviously disagree with you. You're not angry - just thinking - I like that. Email me all you want. Challenge me all you want - I'm better for it. I'm going to post some on this. I'll try to knock out the God Delusion - I just bought it and I'll blog more then.
 
Bob,
Thanks, I like you too.
In case you're wondering, I got your website from one of the members of your church who posts regularly on this website: http://www.achristianandanatheist.com. He seems like a nice guy who I obviously don't agree with, but appreciate his input. Thanks for being willing to exchange views with me. I was a Christian for 45 years before becoming disillusioned by the whole concept a few years ago. Since then I have done a lot of searcing, both within and without, placing my entire worldview on the table of skepticism in order to come to what I believe reflects the truth most closely. I did not leave the church due to any offense or out of anger, just too many doubts and questions that did not have satisfactory answers to place my life and faith in. Take care, Sue
 
The Scientific Image (Clarendon Library of Logic and Philosophy) (Paperback)
by Bas. C. van Fraassen "THE opposition between empiricism and realism is old, and can be introduced by illustrations from many episodes in the history of philosophy..."

get it at amazon, probably one of the better books on the interaction between science and religion. NOT a piece of cake read but worth it.
 
By the way, I'm not the same anonymous blogger that suggested reading The God Delusion, in fact I haven't even read it myself yet, although I do hold high regards for Richard Dawkins.
I have read Losing Faith in Faith by Dan Barker which was very good and highly recommended. Sue
 
Sue, what are the top five questions that caused you to change your mind? Just wondering with what you were wrestling.
 
Lets see, probably the first problem I had concerned "the apostel" Paul, who never even knew Jesus. Other than Paul's own unverifiable claim of having had a supernatural encounter with Jesus via audio hallucinations, where did he get his authority? He just came up with his wild story (which appears like symptoms of someone suffering from mental illness delusions such as schitzophrenia), then he basically hijacked the Jesus movement from the apostles and those who knew Jesus personally and converted it into his own new religion. The church seems to be built more on Paulianity than Christianity.

Second, why should I believe that the Bible is God's word? Muslims claim the Torrah is God's word as well, but Christians don't believe that, right? If something were really inspired by an almighty God, creator of the entire universe, shouldn't we expect it to be free of contradictions and easily understandable to everyone, leaving no doubt or confusion? Yet this is not the case, even among fellow Christians. There are so many different denominations, different bible interpretations, different moral codes-even within the pages of the bible itself, that I cannot believe a supreme deity is behind it. Religious holy texts appear more a mirror image of the views of the people who wrote them than that of any God.

Third, there are many nearly identical likenesses between the ancient pagan gods such as Mithra, Osiris, Dionysius and Jesus, it's obvious to me that Christianity is basically a religion which incorporated both Greek and Roman paganism into Judaism. A little something to make everyone happy.
http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/central.html

Forth, there is no evidence that praying does any more than wishing on a star, or that God provides for the essential needs of "his children", regardless of the promises in the bible. There are millions of children in this world who are dying from malnutrition and diseases, whose parents can only stand by and watch helplessly. There are millions more who are orphans with nobody to care for them. Blame it on sin all you want, but any truly loving parent would help if they could, yet there is no evidence of any father-God figure. If he has the power to do something, where is he?

Fifth, the history of the church. From the beginning, it's been full of hypocrasy and controversy. It's always been a politically motivated religion, and still is today. There have been many wars fought and much blood shed all in the name of this supposedly peace loving religion based on the teachings of Jesus, who told his followers to sell their coats and buy swords if they didn't own one already.

I hope this helps, Sue
 
Correction on my second point. I meant to say that Muslims believe the *Koran* is the word of God.
 
Sue, these are very good questions. I am posting responses to them at www.mynorthwood.org

feel free to comment.
 
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